The Electronic Intifada Podcast 20 October 2025
She said the plan put forward by US President Donald Trump will not bring an end to the occupation but it gives Gaza a chance to rebuild.
“Restarting schools and hospitals, rebuilding homes, to hold onto what they can – until the international geopolitical balance shifts even more against the United States. And I think it’s happening,” she said.
Israel, the US and other world powers continue to talk about the need for Hamas to disarm – including mixed messages from Trump.
Cobban spoke about the history of what Israel has done when resistance groups have disarmed in the past.Specifically, in Lebanon in 1982 the Sabra and Shatila massacre of thousands of defenseless Palestinian refugees happened just weeks after the Palestine Liberation Organization withdrew all its fighters from Lebanon. The US had assured the PLO that the unarmed Palestinian refugees in Lebanon would be safe, but militias allied with and protected by the Israeli army carried out massacres.
“The word of the United States on one of these plans is worth nothing,” said Cobban.
Cobban is a writer with decades of experience and knowledge about the region and she directs Just World Educational.
She also described the “fuzziness” and “intermixed” nature of the division between Palestinians who support the resistance and those who are tied to or support the Palestinian Authority (PA), which collaborates with Israel.
“Practically every single family in the West Bank and Gaza has some people who are working with the PA and some people who are working with the resistance,” she explained.
By contrast, other divisions in the region are much starker, including the “Kurds versus Arabs in Syria.”
“Smart Hamas outreach” could “bring over the bulk of the PA to the resistance side,” according to Cobban. But she referred to the academic Mouin Rabbani’s assessment that this could not happen while the head of the PA, Mahmoud Abbas, is still alive. Abbas turns 90 in November.
Cobban emphasized that the PA has gotten nothing for the Palestinian people in the West Bank except continued settlements, terrorism, land theft and oppression “ from the settlers and [Itamar] Ben-Gvir and all his people in the Israeli government.”
Killings continue during “ceasefire”
At the start of the show, associate editor Nora Barrows-Friedman reported on the ceasefire which came into effect on 10 October.
Thousands of Palestinians returned to their homes in northern Gaza. Resistance factions returned all 20 living Israeli prisoners of war to Israel via the Red Cross.
Israel began releasing living Palestinians from Israeli prisons and detention camps, who returned to Gaza in severe health crises, testifying to unbearable torture, sexual assault and sadistic humiliation at the hands of Israeli guards.
Israel has violated the ceasefire multiple times killing at least 23 Palestinians in its first days. And Israel is still not allowing the 600 aid trucks per day into Gaza, as it had agreed to do.
On Sunday, Israel launched a wave of airstrikes killing dozens of Palestinians across Gaza and cut off all humanitarian aid, on the pretext that Palestinian resistance fighters had killed two Israeli soldiers.However, US officials were aware that the explosion that killed the Israelis was caused not by a resistance attack but by an Israeli bulldozer running over an improvised explosive device in Rafah, according Drop Site News reporter Ryan Grim. US officials reportedly ordered Israel to re-open crossings to Gaza.
By Sunday, 97 Palestinians had been killed since the start of the ceasefire, which Israel had violated more than 80 times, according to the Gaza Government Media Office.
Meanwhile, Gaza is still at risk of famine according to Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor, as Israel has only allowed a fraction of the needed supplies to enter Gaza.Barrows-Friedman shared a moving tribute to Palestinian journalist Saleh al-Jafarawi.
On Sunday, 12 October, al-Jafarawi was killed, reportedly by armed gangs who have been collaborating with Israel, in Gaza City.
Watch Barrows-Friedman’s full report on YouTube and read it here.
A brief history of prisoner exchanges
Contributing editor Jon Elmer reported on the recent prisoner exchange. In addition to the living Israelis, Hamas has released the bodies of nine Israelis and has 19 more to release.
”Of course, it’s very difficult to find the prisoners that Israel killed through their airstrikes,” explained Elmer. Many bodies are under large amounts of rubble.
Elmer also shared some history of prisoner exchanges.
In 2011, over 1,000 Palestinian prisoners were freed in exchange for the captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit. One of the Palestinians freed from a life sentence was Yahya Sinwar who went on to lead the Qassam Brigades, the military wing of Hamas, before assuming leadership of the organization itself.
He was killed by Israeli forces a year ago.
Elmer also cast light on the Shadow Unit – the group within Hamas that is in charge of capturing Israeli soldiers, taking care of them and keeping them hidden.They “flawlessly” kept every Israeli prisoner secret for over two years despite Israel offering a $5 million reward for any information on them, explained Elmer.
He also noted that the last prisoner exchange in January featured resistance fighters displaying symbols, such as driving captured Israeli vehicles, and carrying captured weapons which got the attention of many Israelis who have otherwise seen very little of what is happening in Gaza.
This time the exchanges did not include any such displays.
Many of the Palestinian prisoners who have been freed in these exchanges had been serving life sentences. They would have died in Israeli prison.“These Shadow Unit soldiers are effectively bringing people back from the dead with these operations,” according to Elmer.
Trump takes orders from pro-Israel billionaires
On 13 October, Trump delivered a speech at the Knesset, the Israeli parliament, on the occasion of the ceasefire agreement.
Like many of Trump’s speeches it was meandering, off-the-cuff and filled with grandiose language congratulating himself and others.
“The sun rises on a holy land that is finally at peace, a land and a region that will live, God willing, in peace for all eternity,” he declared.
Trump spent considerable time talking about his top donor, Miriam Adelson, who gave his presidential campaign $100 million last year alone.
Twice he urged her to stand up for recognition. Adelson herself appeared uncomfortable, urging people to sit down as she smiled.
Trump ostensibly praised Adelson but some of his comments appeared to mock or complain about her and her late husband, casino magnate Sheldon Adelson’s, outsize influence – matters not usually addressed so openly and which may not be popular with Trump’s base.
Trump noted Adelson’s $60-billion net worth. She and her late husband made “more trips to the White House than anybody else I could think of,” according to Trump.
“They would come in and her husband was a very aggressive man. But I loved them,” said Trump.
Trump credited the Adelsons for him “thinking about Golan Heights.” In 2019, the president granted US recognition of Israel’s illegal annexation of the occupied Syrian territory – effectively admitting that his foreign policy was dictated by pro-Israel billionaires.
“ I’m going to get her in trouble with this,” said Trump, recounting a private exchange with Miriam Adelson.
“ I said, ‘So, Miriam, I know you love Israel. What do you love more: the United States or Israel?’ She refused to answer. That… might mean Israel,” Trump concluded.
“He accused her of being Israel first as well, or Israel only,” said associate editor Asa Winstanley in the discussion.
Abunimah wondered how Trump’s words would play with his base. “Make America Great Again” and “America First” are two slogans that his supporters rally under.
Already there is an “ unprecedented opening of space to criticize Israel” from the right wing, explained Abunimah.
Some right wingers have expressed sympathy for Palestinians when criticizing Israel. But many are concerned that the US government is too controlled by lobbyists and different interest groups.
“ It seems he’s only fueling that criticism, perhaps deliberately,” Abunimah suggested.
One-state, two-state
On Air Force One, Trump was asked what he thinks about the idea of a one-state or two-state solution.
“I haven’t commented on that,” he said.
Many politicians in the US and Europe insist on a two-state solution for Israel and Palestine.
Abunimah said he was happy to hear Trump challenge that consensus.
“ He might not mean what I mean by a one-state solution,” conceded Abunimah. Zionists want one state that has no Palestinians.
But public discussion about a one-state solution could lead to public support for a state without apartheid or Jewish supremacy, Abunimah argued.”They’re going to say, ‘Well, yeah, the obvious solution is everyone gets equal rights,’” Abunimah said, given the huge shift in US and global public opinion against Israel.
The two-state solution is an attempt by liberal Zionists to save Israel by giving a small, disarmed state to Palestinians – while keeping the racist, apartheid Israeli state intact at any price.
”If you say that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state, then it logically follows that Israel has a right to eliminate the non-Jewish majority in the country” – including by genocide, explained Abunimah.
Barghouti as a symbol
As part of the negotiations over which Palestinian prisoners would be freed in the exchange, the most prominent name was Marwan Barghouti, a former leader of an armed faction during the second intifada of the early 2000s, associated with the Fatah faction of Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas.
In the end, Barghouti and other high-profile leaders were not released.
“There’s really two Marwan Barghoutis if you think about it,” said Abunimah.
Barghouti is a human being who is being held in Israeli captivity in horrible conditions and should be freed immediately along with all Palestinians, Abunimah said.
But Barghouti is also a symbol.During the uprising of the early 2000s, Barghouti used weapons from the PA to arm the Tanzim, the military wing of the Fatah movement. He was captured in 2002 and has been in Israeli captivity since.
Some people believe with this background he could be a leader for all Palestinians.
Liberal Zionists believe “ with this tough image and the credibility… he would be the one who can come out and make concessions to Israel and force them onto the Palestinian people,” warned Abunimah.
On the other hand, Elmer emphasized that others believe Barghouti could be the person from Fatah who could convince the PA and Fatah to end their collaboration with Israel and join the resistance.
“ People project all sorts of things onto him that I think are unfair to project,” said Abunimah, while noting that Barghouti has not had an opportunity to express himself publicly in two decades.
“ We have to be very aware of these political narratives around Marwan Barghouti that are not necessarily fully in line with support for Palestinian resistance and liberation,” said Abunimah.
Don’t blame victims for genocide
At the end of the show, Abunimah spoke about the narrative that the Palestinian resistance is responsible for the genocide of the past two years.
“An occupied, colonized people is never responsible for the atrocities and crimes of the colonial occupier,” he said. “Algerians weren’t responsible for French savagery. Kenyans weren’t responsible for British savagery. Native Americans and indigenous people in Canada were not responsible – there was nothing they did that forced the European colonizers to try to exterminate them. So we mustn’t allow people to impose that victim-blaming narrative on Palestinians either, ever.”
You can watch the program on YouTube, Rumble or Twitter/X, or you can listen to it on your preferred podcast platform.Tamara Nassar produced and directed the program. Michael F. Brown contributed pre-production assistance and this writer contributed post-production assistance.
Past episodes of The Electronic Intifada Livestream can be viewed on our YouTube channel.
Add new comment